Yesterday, through the miracle of my Google Reader came the title of an entry called “illegal or not”, from Melissa of Alosha’s Kitchen.
Please read her saga here and then come back and tell me how you feel.
I’m about to tell you how I feel. Melissa, like any good food blogger went on a search for a potato salad and she found one she liked at Cooks Country, part of the conglomerate of America’s Test Kitchen and Cooks Illustrated.
Although she made many changes to potato salad recipe, she still gave credit to the original inspiration (Cooks Country). Now imagine the shock and disbelief when Melissa received an email from them that they do not allow their recipes to be modified in print.
Yep…you read correctly.
Let me get this straight…the folks at America’s Test Kitchen make their careers out of re-tooling food classics and they swear that their recipes are refined, tested and flawless. Bullshit!
Years ago, before my blogging days, I had made their Jambalaya and to my horror, it tasted like shit, looked like diarrhea and rightfully ended up being dumped down the toilet.
As food bloggers, the extreme case of plagiarism and passing off work and recipes as one’s own is the extreme and rare case but by and large, most of us will link to an inspiration or laud with pride how a dish we made had turned out fantastically.
As true food lovers, we want to share our experiences with other lovers of food. It’s our nature.
I can assure you I will not watch America’s Test Kitchen (locally on PBS Buffalo), buy any issue of Cooks Illustrated or peruse Cooks Country for a recipe. Their attitude has left a bad taste in my mouth and until I see some serious reversal of policy on their behalf, they’ve been 86’ed.
While we’re on the subject of linking to recipes and giving credit, here’s my take on it…any dish that you see here is from myself, family or friends and the remaining dishes are linked back to the cookbook, chef, website, blogger, article or TV show.
One peeve I have is when people link to a recipe and they merely post something to the effect of “I got my recipe from here”.
Why do the bare minimum? The inspired dish was good enough for you to try, make, eat and blog about it – why not give that dish it’s 5 minutes of fame?
I’m delighted and humbled that many of my dishes have been cooked, enjoyed and blogged about by my peers here. All I ask is that you let me know you’re going to post about the dish, link to my original post, citing myself and the site, “Kalofagas” and the courtesy will be reciprocated.
If you haven’t gone over to Alosha’s Kitchen by now, here’s your second chance and don’t be afraid to state your opinion. Melissa did and I salute her!
Peter, I went, commented and I think I will write a post about it too so that maybe we can spread the word a little further.
Thanks for letting us know about this.
i went, read the post, and came back here. it was absolute rubbish on the part of ATK and I can’t believe their sour attitudes.
I went and had a look as well. I can’t believe these people! I swear it’s only going to get worse. Maybe we should ALL blog about it and shove it up their you know where!
I’m in a ranty mood this morning and you’re only encouraging me! :o
That’s absolute bullshit though. I’m not a lawyer, but I was sure to post my understanding of the law over there, which is that those pretentious jackasses are being heavy-handed and have no grounds for any complaint whatsoever. It almost tempts me to make my own derivation, but by the same token, I wouldn’t want to give them any good press whatsoever. This kind of abuse of the notion of copyright is a big no-no in my book.
I’m in a ranty mood this morning and you’re only encouraging me! :o
That’s absolute bullshit though. I’m not a lawyer, but I was sure to post my understanding of the law over there, which is that those pretentious jackasses are being heavy-handed and have no grounds for any complaint whatsoever. It almost tempts me to make my own derivation, but by the same token, I wouldn’t want to give them any good press whatsoever. This kind of abuse of the notion of copyright is a big no-no in my book.
I’m in a ranty mood this morning and you’re only encouraging me! :o
That’s absolute bullshit though. I’m not a lawyer, but I was sure to post my understanding of the law over there, which is that those pretentious jackasses are being heavy-handed and have no grounds for any complaint whatsoever. It almost tempts me to make my own derivation, but by the same token, I wouldn’t want to give them any good press whatsoever. This kind of abuse of the notion of copyright is a big no-no in my book.
I’m in a ranty mood this morning and you’re only encouraging me! :o
That’s absolute bullshit though. I’m not a lawyer, but I was sure to post my understanding of the law over there, which is that those pretentious jackasses are being heavy-handed and have no grounds for any complaint whatsoever. It almost tempts me to make my own derivation, but by the same token, I wouldn’t want to give them any good press whatsoever. This kind of abuse of the notion of copyright is a big no-no in my book.
I’m in a ranty mood this morning and you’re only encouraging me! :o
That’s absolute bullshit though. I’m not a lawyer, but I was sure to post my understanding of the law over there, which is that those pretentious jackasses are being heavy-handed and have no grounds for any complaint whatsoever. It almost tempts me to make my own derivation, but by the same token, I wouldn’t want to give them any good press whatsoever. This kind of abuse of the notion of copyright is a big no-no in my book.
I’m in a ranty mood this morning and you’re only encouraging me! :o
That’s absolute bullshit though. I’m not a lawyer, but I was sure to post my understanding of the law over there, which is that those pretentious jackasses are being heavy-handed and have no grounds for any complaint whatsoever. It almost tempts me to make my own derivation, but by the same token, I wouldn’t want to give them any good press whatsoever. This kind of abuse of the notion of copyright is a big no-no in my book.
I’m in a ranty mood this morning and you’re only encouraging me! :o
That’s absolute bullshit though. I’m not a lawyer, but I was sure to post my understanding of the law over there, which is that those pretentious jackasses are being heavy-handed and have no grounds for any complaint whatsoever. It almost tempts me to make my own derivation, but by the same token, I wouldn’t want to give them any good press whatsoever. This kind of abuse of the notion of copyright is a big no-no in my book.
I’m in a ranty mood this morning and you’re only encouraging me! :o
That’s absolute bullshit though. I’m not a lawyer, but I was sure to post my understanding of the law over there, which is that those pretentious jackasses are being heavy-handed and have no grounds for any complaint whatsoever. It almost tempts me to make my own derivation, but by the same token, I wouldn’t want to give them any good press whatsoever. This kind of abuse of the notion of copyright is a big no-no in my book.
I went and looked and commented. ATK has no place further on my blog. I think they’re lucky she credited them with inspiration. She changed the ingredients, she changed the directions, it’s not their recipe anymore.
Oh and by the way, I made your pasta and halloumi many months ago. It was delicious.
Peter, thanks for this information. Preposterous behaviour! I’ve posted quite a few recipes over time (with credits, and sometimes with modifications) and have never heard a peep. Does ATK actually think they invented cooking as well?! Sheesh.
(by the way, I just came across your blog the other day through Sam’s blog about You are both fabulous – and Torontonians to boot! This is a great resource for those who want to learn about greek food. Opa!! :-)
Pete, I’m so glad you posted this, because I did not know Melissa’s blog. Thank you.
What these people did is the kind of thing that makes me sick to my stomach. That is absolutely ridiculous, to say the least.
I’m lucky I have never tried and, for that matter, posted, anything from the 2 books by them I own. I’m moving to my new apartment next week and I think those books will be left in the garbage can and will never make it to my new home.
Oh Pete I understand your rant and and i salute you too for having the courage to support Melissa on her bad experience
, i agree with you that as food lover we just want to share our experiences with other food lovers period..
I’m glad I stumbled upon your blog and this post. Are ATK even allowed to do that? Perhaps Peter G has the right idea. I’ll mention this in my blog so all (20 of) my readers can spread the word.
Wow, this is totally absurd! Thanks for pointing us to the blog, because I definitely needed to know this. To say you CAN’T modify a recipe is ridiculous. It’s one thing if they forbid the recipe from being copied verbatim into blogs, but that lovely PR woman was not saying that at all.
I’ve had luck with Baking Illustrated recipes but I’ve thought most of the CI coking recipes I’ve tried have been meh. So I guess if I ever make another one, I will cite them and post something like this: “I made their Jambalaya and to my horror, it tasted like shit, looked like diarrhea and rightfully ended up being dumped down the toilet.” LOL
I am totally appalled by this. Like I said on Melissa’s blog – this is just another primo example of people on a power trip – they should read up on karma a little – and know that success does not come from a spirit of greed.
Thanks for pointing this out Peter – I’ve added my two cents, and will try to get a post up too
(Dee, I hope my 20 readers are different from yours ;)
This is good to know… my friend’s husband works for them (as a test chef, not as a lawyer or PR hack or anything like that) and I had no idea of their being so odd. I’m also curious to see how their attitude holds up in court, since she attributed it properly and listed her changes. Seems like a case of “fair use” to me.
ridiculous – she could have left out the inspired by business and not a single sod would have noticed
This is an ironically timely post as I just tried and blogged about one of your recipes. ;-)
(I do hope you take it as a compliment)
I never include a recipe I got directly from a book and did not change, if I can’t find it online. Once it’s appeared online though, I think it’s fair game, especially if I have modified it.
I commented to Melissa at the time of the “incident” that the whole thing was ridiculous and I’m really glad she decided to hit back!
It’s crazy! I am so glad you let me know about this last night!!! I wonder if ATK will even know what they have done?
ela re!
amazing recipe.
ekana xilopites me xoriatiko loukaniko pou efera apo ellada…
by the way, i’m never eating tofu again.
Peter I'm totally with you. I always give credit where credit is due & know for a fact people have bought cookbooks because of recipes I've posted from them, often with modifications.
Also the fact that anyone can claim there version of a dish is the absolute best, no more changes need or allowed ever, is so pretentious! Well..other than my Wild Rice Soup of course ;)
This is absurd! What’s the point of publishing a recipe if it can not be a source of inspiration to people after? Plus she changed the ingredients… plus they got extra positive publicity… and that’s how they appreciate it!!!
Blah! ATK/CC/CI were being jerks, no doubt about it. She didn’t print their recipe, she adapted it. And I don’t think you can dictate whether people have a right to adapt something of yours.
Anyway, regarding your other comment about “this” as citation. I hate that. I always provide people’s blog names and an obvious link when I give credit. But too many times, I’ve had people use my whole recipe and reprint it with the directions I wrote on their blogs, and then say “inspired by” or “adapted by.” Ummm, if you copied and pasted my whole recipe and directions, that’s my whole recipe, nothing inspired or adapted in it. And then to only give a link that’s barely discernible under the word “this.” Totally disrespectful.
Peter – thanks for bringing this to our (my) attention – great post over there. As I said in my comment for Melissa: I’m now considering the fate of the considerable pile of CI magazines sitting at home. Am I actually allowed to read them, or just bask in their Holy Presence?
Either way, I’ll be sharing this with my, uh, readership (all 5 of them) as well.
I will cite them and post something like this: “I made their Jambalaya and to my horror, it tasted like shit, looked like diarrhea and rightfully ended up being dumped down the toilet.” LOL
Elly that was my favorite part too. You’re hilarious Peter. ;P
Thank you so much for the supportive post. I am overwhelmed by the response I have received. I guess a lot of people felt pretty strongly about it.
Peter, I went over and posted a comment on Melissa’s blog, I am going to put a link on my next post to her’s.
This was so out of order, they were totally in the wrong.
I love your blog, your recipes, your humor and your candor Peter. I tell all my friends about your blog. Thank you for alerting me to the attitude of that company. I have only heard of them through reading food blogs, and now that is one less company/website that I need to give my attention to. I prefer to gather my recipes from family and friends anyway, including my blogging friends. Melissa did the polite thing to mention them in her blog as her inspiration. Obviously she was being too polite and should have just posted her own recipe without mentioning them at all. Keep up the good work.
So completely ridiculous! Recipes are all about tinkering. Actually, given the modifications that Melissa made, it was no longer Cook’s Country’s recipe, IMHO.
ATI is full of it. Until people start being cloned and manufactured, we will continue to have different taste buds and different culinary points of view. As for ATI/CI/CC recipes being objectively perfect, I disagree. For my family’s palates, their recipes tend to be bland and underseasoned. If I make them as written, nobody is satisfied with the food.
Im really with you!! I went to he site and told her thet are crazy!!absolutely crazy! xxGloria
Pewter I said THEY ARE CRAZY, sometiumes when Im furious I write too fast sorry!! Gloria
Bloomin’ heck, that is pitiful! I don’t know them, but now I am glad to say, that I just don’t want to!
A food community is about trying and sharing recipe ideas, even before the internet, it was so, with families and friends passing on and adapting recipes! Pah!
I’ve been thinking a lot about this whole incident. I mean, the PR person’s claims were absurd, unfounded, and rude, but I find it really interesting how we as a blogging community are really, REALLY upset. Like, drop our subscriptions upset. Like, still fuming two days later upset (myself included). Browsing through some of the responses that you’ve gotten here make me wonder what it was about Deborah Broide that struck a chord with the foodie bloggie community. I’ve posted a couple of hypothesis on my blog, and I’d love to hear your thoughts.
p.s. we’ve never really met before, but I’ve been following you indirectly for months because we regularly visit and comment on several of the same blogs. Hi! I’m Neen. Nice to finally meet you! :)
same as neen above… i have read your blog and see you commenting on the same blogs i also read. when i read melissa post i was so angry, i took it as a call to arms. i also posted a little rant because i was so angry and i think that melissa needs our support. hear us food bloggers roar!
Outrageous! CC/CI or whatever the hell their name is, needs a reality check. That moron “PR” woman has singlehandedly alienated the entire food blog community. Who do they think helps keep them in business? Good for you for bringing this to our attantion.
oooooh, I am one of those “got my recipe here” people from time to time. I will go hide in my cave now.
Ridiculous, since when did America’s Test Kitchen INVENT potato salad? Oh I am so glad you shared that. It was great reading all the comments there too.
Can’t believe what I’ve just read! Like ‘Lori Lynn’ says since when did they invent potato salad??
I’ve always thought that a recipe couldn’t be copyrighted only the original pictures from a recipe.
The bit where the woman says to Melissa ‘It sounds like you are having a bad day. I hope it gets better!….The Cheeky Cow!
PS: Peter
Like Bridgett – I too am going into hiding as I am also one of those people that sometimes says ‘I used this recipe’……Oh dear.
I had the same thing a while back and chose to just ignore them. I have a contact in the magazine business and she said that they(food editors) also use books from famous chefs,never give acknowledgment, because they just alter the recipes slightly. I think what these people are forcing us to do is to just use the recipes and never mention the source.
I had the same thing a while back and chose to just ignore them. I have a contact in the magazine business and she said that they(food editors) also use books from famous chefs,never give acknowledgment, because they just alter the recipes slightly. I think what these people are forcing us to do is to just use the recipes and never mention the source.
I had the same thing a while back and chose to just ignore them. I have a contact in the magazine business and she said that they(food editors) also use books from famous chefs,never give acknowledgment, because they just alter the recipes slightly. I think what these people are forcing us to do is to just use the recipes and never mention the source.
I had the same thing a while back and chose to just ignore them. I have a contact in the magazine business and she said that they(food editors) also use books from famous chefs,never give acknowledgment, because they just alter the recipes slightly. I think what these people are forcing us to do is to just use the recipes and never mention the source.
I had the same thing a while back and chose to just ignore them. I have a contact in the magazine business and she said that they(food editors) also use books from famous chefs,never give acknowledgment, because they just alter the recipes slightly. I think what these people are forcing us to do is to just use the recipes and never mention the source.
I had the same thing a while back and chose to just ignore them. I have a contact in the magazine business and she said that they(food editors) also use books from famous chefs,never give acknowledgment, because they just alter the recipes slightly. I think what these people are forcing us to do is to just use the recipes and never mention the source.
I had the same thing a while back and chose to just ignore them. I have a contact in the magazine business and she said that they(food editors) also use books from famous chefs,never give acknowledgment, because they just alter the recipes slightly. I think what these people are forcing us to do is to just use the recipes and never mention the source.
I had the same thing a while back and chose to just ignore them. I have a contact in the magazine business and she said that they(food editors) also use books from famous chefs,never give acknowledgment, because they just alter the recipes slightly. I think what these people are forcing us to do is to just use the recipes and never mention the source.
thanks for pointing this out, peter! let’s boycott the cr*p outta them
I totally think we should all blog about this incident. I’m supremely appalled. Elle linked me to Melissa’s post, and it pissed me right off. Those morons at ATI/CI/CC are high if they think that their recipes aren’t going to be freely distributed and modified.
Another great post on this incident. Looks like the PR for CI is not doing such a good job on this one. In fact I am surprised that she has that much time on her hands to write to Melissa about Potato Salad.
Holy cr@p!! Who on earth do these people think they are?? Here’s a heads-up: bandying about words like copyright infringement is not enough to scare your average food blogger. We can all read and it’s not hard to find out that you can’t copyright an ingredient list. Sheesh, people, it’s a freaking potato salad!!!
Glad to see Melissa is getting so much support though – thanks for spreading the word.
The rule of thumb in the cooking contest world is four changes makes it an original recipe. I’m sticking by that standard!
Hope your new speedo is nice and comfy for your upcoming trip:)
I’m glad you wrote about this. I link to blogs when I make their recipes. We have to respect each other. I’ve seen my pictures used by others and asked them to remove them. I’m not buying anything from CI etc. either. They don’t play a fair game with us the food bloggers. They don’t realise that we have a big power. If we talk about a good Chef, a good Cooking show or a good Cookbook, bloggers may want to buy the book or watch the show. It’s called: world of mouth.
Cooks Illustrated has always been a fucking rip off. I page through it when I am in the line at the store waiting to check out and never once have ever found anything awe inspiring or that a 2nd grader could not tell me. They had a write up once on how to boil a potato and the magazine is an ungodly amount of money.
I always try to give credit where credit is due and most blogs I follow seem to take on the same philoshy.
This situation isn’t altogether unexpected (I’ve found the ATK people to be awfully pompous before) — but infuriating nonetheless.
First — thanks for pointing this out and spreading the word. And secondly — thanks to all of you for being among the bloggers who recognize what recipes/sharing is really all about.
You know I cant get enough olives!. As for the Cooks Illustrated, I always found that the most boring and uninspiring magazine, and no way was I spending money to access their website. You mentioned you get peeved when people just link to the recipe. I do that a bit if it isnt an ‘original’. I speak of my modifications in detail but feel wary in most cases putting it on my blog for reasons like these.I feel the link and a bit about my changes is enough and protects me.
It all a new fronteir with a lot of touchy people. Intentional or not someone is going to feel slighted.
Hi Peter, Just a quick note to say thanks for the etiquette reminder. One thing new that I learned after reading this was to notify the originator of the recipe that you posted about it. What a wonderful, respectful idea. I’ve provided credit and links in the past, but I’ve not notified the originator. Ugh, duh! On my post today, I made sure to not only provide a link, but I also notified the originator. As a blogger in process, I appreciate the helpful advice!
That was a great read! Too funny!!! But seriously I cannot believe they were such jerks about it! Odd…. and potato salad??? Gimme a break.
Thanks Peter for informaing me of this issue. Truly amazing… What are we going to hear next, I wonder?
I am posting about this on my blog.
And, I may go out of my way to take one of their recipes, and post it along with whatever modifications I need to make to make it edible. (I absolutely loathe their publications, btw–especially for how they write about ethnic food–they dumb it down and are very arrogant about it, too.)
And then, I am going to email them to let them know about it, and tell them to come the hell after me for it.
The deal is–I am a professional chef, and a former journalist and I have a lot more experience with copyright law than apparently they do.
Which means, other than sending me a threatening email, or a cease and desist order through snailmail, they can’t do anything. The law is not on their side.
And I -will not- take the recipe that I post down.
Because, well, I am just that way.
Great blog, btw–I just found it following links from the CI debacle.
Blessings,
Barbara
Good going, Peter! You’ve brought both Melissa’s plight and the copyright question to the forefront, where they belong. And thanks to you, I’ve discovered Melissa’s blog. Woe to CI should they pursue this further.
Ooops. My goodness it seems rather arrogant to make such a big deal. I love using other peoples recipes & saying how they worked for me… well, it's about all I do. Poor Melissa having to deal with such drama when she was just trying to be nice.
xoxox Amy
YEP..I have been under a rock!
Oh my..I am a subscriber to cooks illustrated..while I have had good and bad results from their tests..I am shocked from their rudeness!Assholes!
I too feel you should give props where props are due. And I ALWAYS list a link back to the original source even if I did change it up a bit! Thats just the polite thing to do!!
The situation is unbelieveble, if not ridicolous!!! I had the American Kitchen team in great consideration, but not anymore! Thank you for sharing this story with us (I wento also to Melissa’s blog to read the all post… unbelieveble!!!!) Ciao
“Years ago, before my blogging days, I had made their Jambalaya and to my horror, it tasted like shit, looked like diarrhea and rightfully ended up being dumped down the toilet”.
Ahhh Pe’er – you do have such a way with words, don’t you :).
Good for you for standing up to be counted. It’s unfortunate that ATK has committed political suicide. I guess they don’t really know the power of bloggers. Silly them.
I agree with everything you said. I came across Melissa’s posting as well and couldn’t believe it. What a bunch of arrogant rats!
Wow, They think way to highly of themselves! I think Melissa handled herself well with that arrogant #*~@!!!!
LOL … I have never met a recipe that I didn’t want to change/tweak to suit my taste.
As far as cookbooks go … I have made many recipes from different books over the last 5+ decades that I have to ask myself afterwards, did they taste this s$$t ?? Because I have sent more than one to the landfill.
Good post …
i actually linked to her post via another site and i was so angry I WAS SCREAMING AT MY COMPUTER. how bad did you want to bitch slap that PR bitch at americas test kitchen!? i order cooks illustrated years ago and NOTHING inspired me. i’m glad you tried something and it tasted/looked like poo (you’ve eaten poo, peter?) b/c i never had the balls to give anything a try.
i am w/ you and will prob. never watch lame-ass nerdo chris kimble and his bevy of nerdy lady-cooks again. partly b/c of this but mostly b/c i think they kind of suck and are boring.
thanks for riling me up again, peter. now i’m pissed!
I am enjoying your blog immensely. Thank you!
And, thanks for the link to Alosha’s blog too. I just finished reading her saga and I need to go find my BP meds.
D.
Apparently, I was on a hippie commune as am just catching up now!
I’m appalled. I’m not a copyright expert, but I’m pretty sure that most people would agree food bloggers are safe by saying the recipe was ‘inspired by’ or ‘adapted from.’ In fact, I consider that a courtesy. With the amount she changed the recipe, she probably didn’t need to cite them at all. Thanks for raising awareness about this, Peter!
Hi Peter — Paul just posted a customer relationship management take on the whole saga. Check it out:
http://globalcrm.blogspot.com/